Discussione:
Germany passes law that imposes 2 year prison sentence for illegal downloading.
(troppo vecchio per rispondere)
Useful Info
2007-05-16 10:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Police state rising...
Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
Mark
2007-05-16 11:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Useful Info
Police state rising...
Nonsense.
Post by Useful Info
Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
Not much there, and what's there is for the simpletons and from from
The Times March 24, 2006 !!! A bit behind, retarded perhaps?

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/article694986.ece

More to the point:

http://www.zeit.de/online/2006/30/urheberrecht-online

http://www.wir-haben-privat-kopiert.de/privkop/press/home

http://www.attac.de/aktuell/presse/presse_ausgabe.php?id=614

http://www.irights.info/index.php?id=81&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=248&cHash=b9959979f8

Now, who has actually bothered to read and study this particular law?
OK, nobody.


Mark
Roger Johansson
2007-05-16 13:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Nonsense.
In Sweden and other European countries we are going the other way, the
politicians are saying that downloading cannot be a crime, because we
cannot put a whole generation in prison.

The politicians have changed their position in face of an overwhelming
opinion among the people, so now it is very unlikely that anybody
could be tried for downloading.

--
Roger J.

Visit the big ACF freeware wiki:
http://freeware.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
a***@hotmail.com
2007-05-16 14:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Johansson
In Sweden and other European countries we are going the other way, the
politicians are saying that downloading cannot be a crime, because we
cannot put a whole generation in prison.
In spite of copyright law some photocopy substantial
parts of, or whole, books, also CD's and DVD's.
Post by Roger Johansson
The politicians have changed their position in face of an overwhelming
opinion among the people, so now it is very unlikely that anybody
could be tried for downloading.
In the case of books the commonsense view is that if the copy is
for personal use, then it's ok.
On this principle you could P2P music or s/w for personal use
but not for resale or commercial/business use.
This seems to be the case for video recording, I can record
televised films, and it would cripple a large part of the
consumer industry if they weren't allowed to sell PVR's.
The sensible view seems to be (in the face of everyone doing it)
that so long as it's not a for profit commercial venture it's
ok.
skip
2007-05-16 15:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Johansson
Post by Mark
Nonsense.
In Sweden and other European countries we are going the other way, the
politicians are saying that downloading cannot be a crime, because we
cannot put a whole generation in prison.
The politicians have changed their position in face of an overwhelming
opinion among the people, so now it is very unlikely that anybody
could be tried for downloading.
--
Roger J.
http://freeware.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
yesss about time . In a few years they will be pardoned in the USA nd made
citizens
Roger Johansson
2007-05-16 16:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Hello Roger,
Post by Roger Johansson
In Sweden and other European countries we are going the other way, the
politicians are saying that downloading cannot be a crime, because we
cannot put a whole generation in prison.
The politicians have changed their position in face of an overwhelming
opinion among the people, so now it is very unlikely that anybody
could be tried for downloading.
Isn't Sweden wherehttp://thepiratebay.org/is located, and the guys
who run Pirate Bay actually campaigned for public office in Sweden's
last election?
Yes, the people who are downloading are so many that even conservative
politicians are now trying to get their votes. Pirate Bay was only
down for a day, then it was restored at a server abroad.

Even before this last development the basic rule was that if something
is available on the web you are free to download it and use it. (with
the exception of child pornography).

If program writers complain about being ripped off it is up to them to
find out better protection schemes.

Several European countries have similar laws. So it is a big surprise
if Germany now takes the opposite side.

Maybe the same thing will happen as in Sweden. When the police finally
made a crackdown on the major pirate site the action backlashed, and
in the end it led to more freedom for downloaders.

Politicians often do things in a backward way. Pressing on for the
opposite direction they often achieve exactly what they really wanted
in the end. Then the politicians can wash their hands and say that
there was nothing we could do, this was the will of the people. And
the people in general now stands behind the new direction because they
achieved it in a struggle against the authorities.
..........

I have started to have a link to "the big ACF freeware wiki" in my
sig, because I noted that more people than me are getting involved and
help updating it.
Let a thousand flowers bloom, and in the end we will see what solution
gets most support.

--
Roger Johansson

Visit the big ACF freeware wiki:
http://freeware.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
The Great Attractor
2007-05-18 02:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by skip
Post by Roger Johansson
Post by Mark
Nonsense.
In Sweden and other European countries we are going the other way, the
politicians are saying that downloading cannot be a crime, because we
cannot put a whole generation in prison.
The politicians have changed their position in face of an overwhelming
opinion among the people, so now it is very unlikely that anybody
could be tried for downloading.
--
Roger J.
http://freeware.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
yesss about time . In a few years they will be pardoned in the USA nd made
citizens
And be able to drive, buy guns, and vote.
gavin
2007-05-16 16:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Useful Info
Police state rising...
Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
As far as software is concerned, since discovering this newsgroup I'm
surprised that anyone would bother downloading illegal software - it seems
to me that there is a free (and usually excellent) alternative to just about
every application!
NRen2k5
2007-05-17 14:34:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by gavin
Police state rising... Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
As far as software is concerned, since discovering this newsgroup I'm
surprised that anyone would bother downloading illegal software - it
seems to me that there is a free (and usually excellent) alternative
to just about every application!
Not really. While GIMP is nice for quick resize jobs, etc. it really
doesn't compare to a photo editing app like Photoshop. Likewise (as far
as I know) there are no freeware CAD programs that even come close to
AutoCAD.
gavin
2007-05-18 16:55:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by NRen2k5
Post by gavin
Police state rising... Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
As far as software is concerned, since discovering this newsgroup I'm
surprised that anyone would bother downloading illegal software - it
seems to me that there is a free (and usually excellent) alternative
to just about every application!
Not really. While GIMP is nice for quick resize jobs, etc. it really
doesn't compare to a photo editing app like Photoshop. Likewise (as far
as I know) there are no freeware CAD programs that even come close to
AutoCAD.
Yes, really! "Power users" of any given application might have the same
argument as you but "most" applications (I hate generalising!) in my
experience are full of features that "average users" (the majority?) never
need. And so a nice lean fast freeware application is usually just the
ticket for "average" me.
On the Road to Damascus
2007-05-19 06:58:57 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 May 2007 16:55:26 GMT, "gavin"
Post by gavin
Post by NRen2k5
Post by gavin
Police state rising... Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
As far as software is concerned, since discovering this newsgroup I'm
surprised that anyone would bother downloading illegal software - it
seems to me that there is a free (and usually excellent) alternative
to just about every application!
Not really. While GIMP is nice for quick resize jobs, etc. it really
doesn't compare to a photo editing app like Photoshop. Likewise (as far
as I know) there are no freeware CAD programs that even come close to
AutoCAD.
Yes, really! "Power users" of any given application might have the same
argument as you but "most" applications (I hate generalising!) in my
experience are full of features that "average users" (the majority?) never
need. And so a nice lean fast freeware application is usually just the
ticket for "average" me.
Sometimes you can actually do more with freeware. Sometimes not.
NRen2k5
2007-05-19 10:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by gavin
Post by NRen2k5
Post by gavin
Police state rising... Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
As far as software is concerned, since discovering this newsgroup I'm
surprised that anyone would bother downloading illegal software - it
seems to me that there is a free (and usually excellent) alternative
to just about every application!
Not really. While GIMP is nice for quick resize jobs, etc. it really
doesn't compare to a photo editing app like Photoshop. Likewise (as far
as I know) there are no freeware CAD programs that even come close to
AutoCAD.
Yes, really! "Power users" of any given application might have the same
argument as you but "most" applications (I hate generalising!) in my
experience are full of features that "average users" (the majority?) never
need. And so a nice lean fast freeware application is usually just the
ticket for "average" me.
True, that.
The Great Attractor
2007-05-18 02:14:48 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 16 May 2007 16:07:20 GMT, "gavin"
Post by gavin
Post by Useful Info
Police state rising...
Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
As far as software is concerned, since discovering this newsgroup I'm
surprised that anyone would bother downloading illegal software - it seems
to me that there is a free (and usually excellent) alternative to just about
every application!
Since this post is cross posted to SEVERAL groups, you might want to
word your CRAP a bit more thoughtfully.
The Great Attractor
2007-05-18 02:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Useful Info
Police state rising...
Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
It is not a police state, you fucking retard!

You do not get to fucking steal. It is *that* simple, dipshit.
Lamey Teh cable Guy
2007-05-20 14:09:24 UTC
Permalink
The Great Attractor
Post by The Great Attractor
Post by Useful Info
Police state rising...
Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
It is not a police state, you fucking retard!
You do not get to fucking steal. It is *that* simple, dipshit.
I do, It's that simple.
Robert Baer
2007-05-21 02:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lamey Teh cable Guy
The Great Attractor
Post by The Great Attractor
Post by Useful Info
Police state rising...
Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
It is not a police state, you fucking retard!
You do not get to fucking steal. It is *that* simple, dipshit.
I do, It's that simple.
I have a few dumb questions:
1) Who defines what "illegal" downloading means?
Is it downloading State secrets? Is it downloading the latest DRM
crack? Is it downloading details concerning perversions by someone in
power? Is it downloading details concerning the construction of an
H-bomb (been around since the 1950's)?, is it downloading chid porn?
2) What techniques are used to "catch" someone supposedly doing that,
and how easy is it to fake that "evidence"?
Citizen Bob
2007-05-21 11:52:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 May 2007 02:41:09 GMT, Robert Baer
Post by Robert Baer
1) Who defines what "illegal" downloading means?
Those in power make the rules to suit their purposes.

"Those men who own the earth make the laws to protect what they have.
They fix up a sort of fence or pen around what they have, and they fix
the law so the fellow on the outside cannot get in. The laws are
really organized for the protection of the men who rule the world.
They were never organized or enforced to do justice. We have no system
for doing justice, not the slightest in the world."
--Clarence Darrow

--

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable."
--Sun Tzu

Dirk
2007-05-18 11:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Useful Info
Police state rising...
Read all about it, here: http://Muvy.org
In the Netherlands downloading copyrighted things is not illegal, as long
as you only use it for personal use and don't distribute it in any way,
so uploading is illegal.
Good idea they had to fight against the illegal distribution of
copyrighted material:
Only go after uploaders (without uploads there won't be any downloads
either), which makes it posible to aim all your energy and resources at
less people.
Let people pay a bit more for empty media (cd's and dvd's) to get some
money back from the downloaders to the people holding the copyright.
--
Dirk
NRen2k5
2007-05-18 12:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dirk
In the Netherlands downloading copyrighted things is not illegal, as
long as you only use it for personal use and don't distribute it in
any way, so uploading is illegal. Good idea they had to fight against
the illegal distribution of copyrighted material: Only go after
uploaders (without uploads there won't be any downloads either),
which makes it posible to aim all your energy and resources at less
people. Let people pay a bit more for empty media (cd's and dvd's) to
get some money back from the downloaders to the people holding the
copyright.
Works the same here in Canada. And I *do* mean “works.” Glad to see
somebody else somewhere has clued in.

P.S. Please don't use the “Followup-to” field like that.
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